Znam da je ljubav odgovor
Smatrana je jednom od najčitanijih i najuticajnijih mladih pesnikinja današnjice. Sa velikom čašću i zadovoljstvom, predstavljamo vam Rupi Kaur. Njena kniga ,,Med i mleko” doživela je planetarni uspeh, ali Kaur ne miruje i užurbano privodi kraju rad na drugoj knjizi. Čak i pored gustog rasporeda našla je vremena da porazgovara sa nama, prvi put za srpske medije. Razgovarali smo o tome kako je izgledao njen put ka svetskoj popularnosti, da li ju je dočekala (ne) spremna, o položaju žena u svetu, o ljubavi, patnji, kao i o tome zašto je svojoj zbirci nadenula naslov ,,Med i mleko”
Ispričaj nam kada si prvi put osetila potrebu da svoje misli pretočiš na papir.
Kao dete koje nije ispuštalo knjigu iz ruku, bilo je prirodno da od malih nogu počnem da pišem kratke pesme. Tek sam u višim razredima osnovne škole počela da pišem poeziju. Pisala bih drugarima za njihove rođendane, ili dečacima koji su mi se sviđali. U srednjoj školi, poezija je postala politički orijentisana. Pisala sam o tome šta osećam da je pogrešno u svetu i koje stvari bih želela da promenim. Na fakultetu sam postala mnogo introspektivnija.
Tvoja zbirka Med i mleko je prvobitno objavljena kao samizdat, i uspeh i popularnost su rasli iz dana u dan do trenutka kada je Andrew McMeel Publishing otkupio prava što je rezultiralo time da knjiga postane planetarno popularna. Da li te je ovo iskustvo naučilo strpljenju? Koja su bila tvoja očekivanja kada je knjiga prvi put objavljena?
Definitivno jeste. Smejem se kada razmišljam o ovome zato što mislim da se to nekako desilo kao brak. Spajanje s njima je bilo stvarno neverovatno. Bilo nam je potrebno dosta vremena da se upoznamo sa načinom na koji svako od nas radi, porazgovaramo o našim kreativnim vizijama i isplaniramo dalje korake. Sve su to iskustva na kojima sam duboko zahvalna. Pogurala su me napred kao osobu, ne samo kao pesnikinju. Kada je knjiga prvi put objavljena, znala sam da će AMP da je predstavi mnogo većoj publici i bila sam jako uzbuđena zbog toga, ali nikad nisam ni pomišljala da će Med i mleko postati to što je danas. Iskreno, radim sa timom koji je duboko posvećen širenju poruke. Mislim da to ima mnogo veze sa tim koliko je daleko dogurala. Kada ljudi veruju u ideju onda dodaju još malo nečeg posebnog kako bi širili magiju.
Uz tvoje ime često možemo videti opise poput „internet pesnikinja”, „Instagram pesnikinja”, „pop pesnikinja”. Koliko ti je bilo teško da se otvoriš i emotivno razodeneš kada si počela da deliš svoja iskustva kroz pesme sa rastućom publikom na internetu?
Počela sam da objavljujem onlajn što mi je dalo glas. Mnogo toga što sam pisala, nikada ranije nisam izgovorila naglas, iz prostog razloga što nisam osećala da to mogu. Objavljivanje onlajn je bio moj način izražavanja. Bilo je nekako katarzično deliti svoja razmišljanja, a društvene mreže su bile posrednik putem kojeg sam to činila. Veliki deo mog sazrevanja kao pisca se desio upravo zahvaljujući tome što sam sve više i više delila ono što mislim. Studirala sam pisanje i retoriku na Univerzitetu Waterloo, osvrćući se na svoj lični život i u isto vreme pokušavala da razumem iskustva kroz koja sam prolazila zajedno sa drugim ženama iz svog okruženja. Tako da sam o društvenim mrežama učila usput. Verujem da u njihovim okvirima postoji više demokratičnosti u sadržaju i manje uređivačke politike nego u drugim medijima. To može biti problematično, ali daje svim ljudima pravo glasa. Kao umetnik, pišeš o onome o čemu želiš da pišeš i tvoji čitaoci gravitiraju ka tebi. Ne postoji ništa što ti stoji na putu. Ovo je jako važno za rad iz marginalizovane i diskriminisane zajednice. Ljudi koji ne izgledaju kao mi su obično uređivači tradicionalnih medija. Ipak, postoji želja i za ovakvim radom i društvene mreže su pomogle da se izniveliše teren za igru.
U kojoj meri su društvene mreže uticale na tvoju ulogu u društvu?
Mislim da su mi dale platformu na kojoj sada imam publiku, ali time i odgovornost pri širenju poruka koje izazivaju razmišljanje i koje će gurati ljude i kritičko razmišljanje napred.
Pisanje je medijum koji ti omogućava da istražiš teme kao što su ljubav, nasilje, bol, zlostavljanje i to kako je biti žena. Ko su ljudi koji su najviše uticali na tebe i pomogli ti da postaneš osoba kakva si danas?
Borbe moje zajednice i porodice imaju jako mnogo veze sa tim kakva sam ja. Gledajući žrtve koje su podnosili moji majka i otac kako bismo mogli da idemo u školu, imamo hranu na stolu i krov nad glavom, pokazali su mi duboku i bezuslovnu ljubav koju ja kao njihova ćerka želim da prenesem dalje.
U videu Sitting down with Rupi Kaur, govoriš o pisanju i o tome kako je to bio tvoj lek do trenutka kada si dospela do izvesne granice koju nisi želela da pređeš. Kada i kako se to desilo i kako si uspela da prevaziđeš ovu barijeru?
Mislim da je pisanje moja forma isceljenja, ali takođe i moj zanat. Ja sam pisala uglavnom o svojim iskustvima i iskustvima ljudi oko mene. Ovo znači da je pisanje za mene proces razumevanja i sagledavanja, pored toga što je umetnička forma. Kako idem napred, takođe podrazumeva učenje o jeziku i umetnosti pisanja, kao i produbljivanje onoga o čemu pišem.
Kao mala, zajedno sa porodicom si se preselila iz Indije u Kanadu, multinacionalnu zemlju, mnogih rasa i religija. Da li ste tvoja porodica i ti ikada naišli na neprijatne situacije u vezi sa gore navedenim, ili si čak iskusila diskriminaciju na osnovu toga što si žena?
Vrlo se često nailazi na ovakve situacije. Moj otac je Sik koji nosi bradu i turban, tako da možete zamisliti. Budući da je engleski moj drugi jezik, da imam drugačiju boju kože, da potičem iz porodice sa drugačijim ekonomskim statusom nego moji vršnjaci, to je davalo dosta povoda da me zadirkuju, što se podrazumevalo za većinu ljudi.
Slaviš žene, borbu i otpor, bol i opstanak. Koje su žene tvoje lične heroine?
Moja majka meni naravno predstavlja broj jedan. Biti svedok postojanju jedne tako jake, žestoke i trpeljive žene, definitivno je proširilo moje vidike za ono što mislim da sam sposobna. Zaista crpim snagu od žena koje vidim da se bore protiv ukorenjenih formi ugnjetavanja. Razmišljam o ženama koje su se borile u okviru velikih pokreta našeg vremena,
od građanskih prava do prava na rad. Ima toliko bezimenih duša, koje su se borile iz prvih borbenih redova, ali i iz rovova. Crpim snagu iz legija muškaraca i žena, uključujući umetnike i pripadnike otpora koji su se borili i koji se i dalje bore u borbama za globalno oslobođenje u svojoj potrazi za jednakošću i pravdom.
Mnogo puta si izjavila kako si prigrlila svoja iskustva, svoju bol i nevolje, i da je okej kada nismo okej. Kako ti je poezija pomogla da izađeš na kraj sa ovim teškim situacijama? Knjiga Med i mleko je podeljena na četiri dela: Bol, Ljubav, Slom, Isceljenje koji imaju terapeutsko dejstvo već i samom svojom organizacijom.
Pisanje poezije je bilo katarzično za mene. Činom pisanja sam uspevala da umirim svoju dušu. Pravljenjem poezije sam došla do odgovora na mnoga teška pitanja. Teme su mi došle prirodno. Nisam imala nameru da pišem o temama o kojima sam pisala. Nisam znala da pišem četiri različita odeljka. Tek kada sam završila, nakon nekoliko godina, imala sam na stotine dela ispred sebe. Počela sam da ih organizujem i tada su mi se ukazale četiri odvojene sekcije. Onda sam se zapitala kako da ih poređam. Nije postojao bolji način od počinjanja sa dubinski bolnim temama i završetka sa slavljenjem samog sebe. Bio je to prirodan narativ koji je značio da koliko god bila teška situacija, uvek ćemo je prevazići.
Fotografija koja je uklonjena sa Instagrama a koja prikazuje žensko krvarenje prilikom menstruacije izazvala je buru na društvenim mrežama. Kako je moguće da je i danas društveno prihvatljivo da se žena na fotografiji prikaže oskudno odevena a da ne izazove ovakvu reakciju, nego baš suprotno – dok se ovakav jedan prirodan proces smatra neprihvatljivim i čak mu se pristupa sa gađenjem?
Tela žena su toliko seksualizovana da se posmatranje nage žene smatra sasvim normalnim, dok se najprirodniji proces koje to isto telo ima ocrnjuje. Ovo su slojevi ugnjetavanja kojim patrijarhat uokviruje kako žensko telo može biti prikazano i koje se konverzacije o njemu mogu voditi. Upotreba ženskog tela je prihvaćena, dok se prirodni proces menstruacije klasifikuje kao sraman i briše.
Po tvom mišljenju, koji su najveći problemi sa kojima se žena danas suočava i kako možemo uticati na promenu?
Postoji veliki broj univerzalnih problema koji utiču na žene, ali postoji i čitav opseg slojeva koji presecaju nečiju ženstvenost, a koji sačinjavaju izazove sa kojima se žene susreću. Uopšteno, pravo na borbu za žensko telo je najbitnije, ali isto tako i ukazivanje na druge probleme kao što su glad, siromaštvo, dobro upravljanje, kao i pravo na rad i mogućnost napredovanja u pogledu društvenog statusa. Po mom mišljenju, početak rešavanja svakog od ovih problema jeste omogućavanje pristupa obrazovanju za žene. I dok se društvene kritike i ekonomske teorije mogu promeniti, obrazovanje je nešto što prodire kroz mnogo kulturnih i ekonomskih slojeva. Obrazovati ženu je kao da obrazujete čitav jedan grad. U potpunosti preobražuje osobu, lozu i zajednicu.
Pišeš o stvarima koje su delikatne i predmet konstantnog razmišljanja i debatovanja, a to radiš na veoma svakodnevan način. Kako uspevaš da kanališeš svoja osećanja i čak i ružne stvari sagledavaš na jedan pozitivan način i sa mnogo ljubavi? Da li misliš da tako doprinosimo njihovom nestanku ili preobraćanju u nešto bolje i lepše?
Provodim dosta vremena razmišljajući. Volim da se šalim i kažem da je moj mozak uvek u brzom pogonu kako bi razumeo emocije koje imam prema sebi i svetu. Kanališem svoja osećanja putem reči. Sužavam ih samim stilom pisanja. Jednostavno, kratko i koncizno. To su odgovori koji želim da ostanu kao rezultat mog rada. Uspevam da vidim stvari kao pozitivne i pune ljubavi tek nakon što sam ih posmatrala kao negativne. Moram da prođem kroz ljutnju i otpor kako bih došla do ljubavi. Verujem da kada naučimo da sagledavamo stvari na ovaj način, to nas osnažuje da budemo bolji i podstičemo jedni druge.
Pišeš i o problemima izbeglica i migranata, kao i o tome kroz šta su sve prošli tvoji roditelji kako bi ti obezbedili dobar život. Tema je trenutno prilično kontroverzna imajući u vidu migrantsku krizu i političke odluke koje donose brojne zemlje, što dodatno komplikuje već po sebi tešku i bolnu situaciju. Kako ti gledaš na promene koje se odvijaju svima nama pred očima i vidiš li rešenje ove komplikovane situacije?
Granica je ljudski konstrukt, jedan od večnih pokušaja čovečanstva da opiše šta je moje, a šta je tvoje. Izvan vapaja nacionalizma i izolacionizma nalaze se dubinski tužni i gorki pogledi na svet. Od imperijalizma do ratova dvadesetog veka, iste zemlje koje su odgovorne za toliko svetskih pokolja sada pokušavaju da se operu od haosa koji su izazvale. Razmišljam o ovome, a onda kažem sebi da to sve seže jako duboko. Naravno da osećam duboku tugu zbog stanja u svetu. Ali izazivam sebe da imam nadu. Znam da je odgovor ljubav. Odgovor je saosećanje. Nadam se da ja mogu da pomognem ljudima da vide izvan privilegija koje su nam date. Mi nismo naši pasoši. Nismo ono koliko imamo na bankovnom računu. Mi smo ljudi zajedno zarobljeni u kolektivnoj strepnji od života. I živote koje živimo dobili smo od okolnosti koje su izvan naše kontrole.
Kaži nam, zašto si odabrala ime Med i mleko?
Pre dosta godina, napisala sam pesmu o genocidu koji je izvršen 1984. nad Sikima u Indiji. U njoj postoji stih o ženama koje su preživele te trenutke. Njihov prkos oduzima dah. One su preživele ubistva svojih muževa i svoje dece. One su preživele izdaju. Silovanje. Mučenje. Pišem o tome kako su iz ovog terora izašle nežne poput mleka i guste poput meda. Izvodila sam ovo delo u svom rodnom gradu. Ali, u srcu sam tada osetila kako te reči ne treba tu da ostavim. U okvirima jednog jedinog stiha jedne jedine pesme. Tog dana je svoju ulogu odigrala viša sila, jer sam otvorila novi dnevnik i na prvoj stranici napisala ove reči. Nešto u meni je govorilo „Ovo će biti nešto više jednog dana”. I evo, tu smo. Tako se rodio naslov Med i mleko. Kasnije sam saznala da se med i mleko takođe dosta pominju u poeziji Baba Farida. Pominju se i u mnogim religioznim tekstovima širom sveta. I ne samo to, med i mleko su korišćeni kao sastojci u mojoj porodici i zajednici kao lekovita sredstva. Koristili su se kao lekovi za prehladu i grip. Za isceljenje rana i oporavak iznutra.
Ilustracije u knjizi si sama uradila. Pored samih pesama, šta te je još inspirisalo dok si ih radila?
Kada sam počela da pišem, pomislila sam kako već postoji dovoljno autora koji samo objavljuju svoje pesme i želela sam da stvari odvedem u malo drugačijem pravcu. Vizuelna umetnost je moja prva ljubav, na to sam zaboravila kada sam počela da pišem, tako da sam joj se iznova vratila.
Trenutno pripremaš svoju drugu knjigu. Možemo li da dobijemo mali uvid u njen sadržaj?
Ne mogu još uvek ništa da podelim sa vama! Ali i pre nego što mislite, imaćete pred sobom celu kolekciju. Trenutno radim na njoj dan i noć!
ENGLISH
I Know That The Answer Is Love
She is regarded to be one of the most read and most influential young poets of today. With great honor and pleasure, we present you Rupi Kaur. Her book of poetry “Milk And Honey” achieved planetary success, however Kaur is not idle and is finalizing her second book at the moment. Even with her busy schedule, Kaur found the time to talk with us – which is the first time she has given an interview to any Serbian media outlet. We talked about her path to planetary popularity and if she met it (un)prepare, as well as love, pain, the status of women in the world, and why she named her book Milk And Honey
Tell us when you first felt the need to write down your thoughts on paper.
As a child who read obsessively, I naturally began to write little poems from a young age. It wasn’t till middle school that I began to write poetry. I would write for friends on their birthdays, or for boys I had crushes on. In high school, poetry became a political act. I wrote about what I felt was wrong in the world and what I wanted to change. In university, I began to do a lot more reflection.
“Milk And Honey” was primarily self published and success grew day by day until the moment when Andrew McMeel Publishing bought the rights, which led to the book becoming globally popular. Has this experience taught you patience? What were your expectations when the book was published for the first time?
It definitely has. I laugh to myself thinking about it because I think it was kind of like a marriage. Coming together with them has been absolutely wonderful. But we’ve had to take a lot of time to learn about each other, how we work, and chart out a path for our future. They’re all experiences I’m deeply thankful for. They’ve pushed me forward as a person – not just “Rupi, the poet”.
When the book first got published I knew AMP would take it to a larger audience, and I was so excited about that. But never did I imagine milk and honey could become what it has today. Honestly, I am working with a team who is deeply dedicated to the message. I think that has a lot to do with how far it’s come. When people believe in something they put in that little extra touch to spread magic.
Together with your name we can often see descriptions such as “Internet poet”, “Instagram poet”, “pop poet”… How difficult was it for you to open up and undress emotionally when you began to share your experiences through poems with a growing audience on the Internet?
I began to post online because I felt it gave me a voice. So much of what I was writing about, I had never said out loud before, I didn’t feel I could say it out loud. Posting online was my expression. It was cathartic to share, and social media was a medium to do it through. Much of my growth as a writer came during the time I was sharing more and more. I was studying writing and rhetoric at the University of Waterloo, reflecting more about my personal life, while attempting to understand the experiences I and the women around me were going through. So I learned about social media in the midst of all this. I believe, there’s more democratization of content with less gatekeepers than in other mediums. It can be problematic but it does allow for folk from all walks to life to have a voice. As an artist, you write what you want to write about, and your readers gravitate towards you. There’s nothing standing in your way. This is really important for work from marginalized or underrepresented communities. People who don’t look like us are often the gatekeepers of more traditional platforms. However, there is a desire for such work and here, social media has helped in leveling out the playing field.
In what amount did social networks influence your role in society?
I think it’s given me a platform where I now have an audience- hence a responsibility to share messages that are thought provoking and will push people and critical thinking forward.
Writing is a medium that helps you explore topics such as love, violence, pain, abuse and what it is like to be a woman. Everything you do, you feel and think truly and deeply. Who were the people that affected you the most and made you the kind of person you are today?
The struggles of my community and my nuclear family have a lot to do with who and how I am. Seeing the sacrifices my mom and dad made so that we could go to school, have food on the table, and a roof over our heads really showed us a deep unconditional love I as their daughter want to pass forward.
In the video Sitting Down With Rupi Kaur, you talked about writing and how it had been your cure until the moment you had reached a certain limit that you did not want to cross. When and how did this happen and how did you succeed in passing this barrier?
I think writing is my form of healing and also my craft. And much of my writing so far has dealt with my experiences and the experiences of those around me. This means it’s a process for me of understanding and contemplating as well as an art form. As I journey forwards, this means learning more about language and the art of writing and increasing the depth and breadth of what I’m writing about.
At a young age you moved with your family from India to Canada, a multinational country of many races and religions. Have you or your family members ever come across any unpleasant situations regarding those, and further on, have you ever experienced discrimination based upon the fact that you are a woman?
It’s quite common to come across these kinds of situations. My father is a bearded and turbaned Sikh man, so you can only imagine. English being my second language growing up and a person of colour, and coming from a different economic class than my peers allowed for a lot of reasons to pick on me- which is the norm for most people.
You celebrate women, the fight and resistance, the pain and survival. Who are your personal heroines?
My mom of course is number one for me. To bear witness to such a strong, fierce, and enduring woman has definitely expanded my opportunities for what I think I am capable of. I really gain strength from women who I see fighting entrenched forms of oppression. I think of the women who fought in the great movements of our times, from civil rights to labor. There are so many nameless souls, who both led from the frontline and battled in the trenches. I gain strength from the legions of men and women, including the artists, organizers and resisters who fought and are fighting in the global liberation struggles in their pursuits of equality and justice. Many times you stated how you have embraced your experiences, pain and troubles and that it is okay to not be okay.
How did poetry help you deal with difficult situations? The book Milk And Honey is divided into four sections “The Hurting”, “The Loving”, “The Breaking” and “The Healing”, that have a therapeutic effect even by such organization itself. Writing poetry was cathartic for me. Through the act of writing I was able to soothe my soul. I answered difficult questions by constructing poetry. The themes naturally presented themselves.
I didn’t intend to write about the topics I wrote about. I didn’t know I was writing four different sections. It was when I was done, at the end of a few years of writing I had hundreds of pieces in front of me. I started assembling them and four distinct sections presented themselves to me. So then I thought: how am I going to order them? What better way than to begin with the deeply painful topics- and end with a celebration of self. It was a natural narrative that meant – no matter how difficult a situation is, we will overcome.
A removal of the Instagram photograph that shows woman’s bleeding during menstruation has caused a storm on social media. So even today it is socially accepted for a woman to be photographed barely dressed and does not cause this kind of reaction, but in fact does the opposite and such a natural process is considered unacceptable and is even approached with disgust. How is that possible?
The bodies of women are so sexualized that seeing a nude woman is deemed perfectly normal, while the most natural process that the body undertakes are vilified. These are layers of oppression, where patriarchy frames both how a body can be presented and the conversations that can occur about it. The use of a female body is accepted while the natural process of menstruation is classified as embarrassing and erased.
In your opinion, what are the biggest problems that women face today and how can we all make a difference?
There is a number of universal problems that impact women – however there are also a range of layers intersecting one’s femininity which compound the challenges facing women. Globally, the right to fight for women’s body is vital, but so is addressing systematic challenges of hunger, poverty, good governance and the right to work and having access to upward social mobility. For me, the start of many of these is providing access of education for women. While social critiques and economic theories may change, education is something that cuts across so many cross cultural and economic layers. Educating a woman is like educating an entire city. It completely transforms a person, a lineage and a community.
You write about things that are delicate and subject to constant thinking and debating in a very casual way. How do you manage to channel your feelings and see not-so-nice things in a positive way and with so much love? Do you think that by doing so we contribute to their disappearance or convert them into something better and more beautiful?
I do a lot of processing and thinking. I like to joke that my mind is always on hyper drive trying to figure out emotions in regards to myself and the world. I channel my feelings through my words. I narrow them down just by the style of my writing. Simple, small, and concise. Those are the answers I want and that ends up being the work I produce. I manage to see things in positivity and love only after seeing them negatively. I have to work through the anger and resentment before I get to love. I do believe that learning to see things in this way will empower us to do better and do better by each other.
You wrote about problems of refugees and migrants as well as everything your parents went through to ensure a good life for you. The topic is currently very controversial because of the migrant crisis and political decisions made by many countries, which further complicates this very difficult and painful subject. How do you feel about the changes taking place before the eyes of everyone, and do you see the solution of this complicated situation?
Border’s a human construct. One of humanity never ending attempting to delineate what’s mine and what’s yours. Beyond the rallying cries of nationalism and isolationism, is a deeply sad and bitter ways of seeing the world. From imperialism to the wars of the 20th century, the same countries that were responsible for so much of the world’s carnage are the ones now trying to wash themselves of the chaos they’ve caused. I think of this, but then I say to myself, this gets to a deeper notion of being. Of course I feel deeply saddened by the state of the world. But I challenge myself to remain hopeful. I know that the answer is love. The answer is compassion. My hope is that I can help people see beyond the privileges we hold. We are not our passports. We are not how much we have in our bank accounts. We are people trapped together in the collective angst of life. And circumstances out of our control have given us certain lives. It is my duty to help and provide space for someone who has been silenced or is being unheard.
Tell us, why the name Milk And Honey?
Years ago I wrote a poem about the 1984 genocide of Sikhs in India. In it there is a line about the women who lived through that terrible time. Their resilience is breathtaking. They are the enduring survivors to the murders of their husbands and children. The survivors of betrayal. Rape. Torture. I write that they come out of that terror as smooth as milk and as thick as honey. I performed that piece around my hometown. But it didn’t feel right in my heart to leave those words right there. In the confines of a single line in a single poem. That day a higher power was at play because I opened up a brand new journal and on the front page wrote those words. Something inside me said ‘this will be more one day’. And here we are. This is how the title ‘milk and honey’ is born. I later discovered that ‘milk and honey’ was also used in a lot of poetry by Baba Farid. It was mentioned in many religious texts across the world. Not only this but both milk and honey were ingredients used in my family and community as healing tools. They were used as cold and flu medicine’s. Tools to heal wounds. Repair the insides. You did the illustrations for the book.
Alongside the poems themselves, what was your inspiration while doing them?
When I first started writing, I thought there were enough writers out there just posting their poems and I wanted to take it into a different direction. Visual art was my first love and I’d forgotten that since I had started to write, so I brought that back in. You are currently preparing your second book.
Can we maybe get a little sneak preview of its content?
I can’t share anything new just yet! But sooner than you know you’ll have the entire collection. I am currently working on it day and night!
